Future Gameplay Changes

[Assassin84]

Hey guys, with the first tournament playing out and peoples interest, I have decided to follow up with a second round of tournaments following the current one. Registration isn't open at this time thought.

Now what I really want to discuss here is gameplay and what you guys feel is fair. For this tournament we banned Itachi and limited Deidra and Puppet users to 1 per team.

However as we (me and outlaw) have reached the top ranks and started playing against the top people in the leader boards, we have noticed that portion of the players all gravitate to use only Sauske(Kirin). And Sasori as coming after that. And of course Itachi, Deidra doesnt seem to be used as much anymore.

I played against like 15 people earlier today and all used Sauske, and that's fine but they all used the same strategy and gameplay got real boring. just staying back throwing shuriken until his supports (deidra and kakazu) which throw homing jutsus at you and force you to block most of the time come in, then they would just use kirin twice in quick succession and breaking your armor and repeating it until the match is over. The only variation i saw is using kabuto as a support to launch you in the air then catch you in a Kirin.

So it really annoyed me, same with Sasori who just just blocks all game, rarely risking a grab just waits for supports to launch u in the air and then uses his ultimate to catch you in the air. That's the only type of gameplay I have seen from those characters.

Don't get me wrong i'm not trying to complain here but I wanted to get all of your opinions on this and other characters or things you feel are unbalanced.

Because if this is the only thing to expect when fighting against the "best" online then I would like to offer an alternative to this and bring about more fair gameplay. I know some people will disagree, but out of 60 matchs i played in the last 2 days, about 80% of them were sauske so i think there is something wrong there.

[JoySticK]

Nov 5, 2010 7:39:31 GMT -5 Assassin84 said:

Hey guys, with the first tournament playing out and peoples interest, I have decided to follow up with a second round of tournaments following the current one. Registration isn't open at this time thought.

Now what I really want to discuss here is gameplay and what you guys feel is fair. For this tournament we banned Itachi and limited Deidra and Puppet users to 1 per team.

However as we (me and outlaw) have reached the top ranks and started playing against the top people in the leader boards, we have noticed that portion of the players all gravitate to use only Sauske(Kirin). And Sasori as coming after that. And of course Itachi, Deidra doesnt seem to be used as much anymore.

I played against like 15 people earlier today and all used Sauske, and that's fine but they all used the same strategy and gameplay got real boring. just staying back throwing shuriken until his supports (deidra and kakazu) which throw homing jutsus at you and force you to block most of the time come in, then they would just use kirin twice in quick succession and breaking your armor and repeating it until the match is over. The only variation i saw is using kabuto as a support to launch you in the air then catch you in a Kirin.

So it really annoyed me, same with Sasori who just just blocks all game, rarely risking a grab just waits for supports to launch u in the air and then uses his ultimate to catch you in the air. That's the only type of gameplay I have seen from those characters.

Don't get me wrong i'm not trying to complain here but I wanted to get all of your opinions on this and other characters or things you feel are unbalanced.

Because if this is the only thing to expect when fighting against the "best" online then I would like to offer an alternative to this and bring about more fair gameplay. I know some people will disagree, but out of 60 matchs i played in the last 2 days, about 80% of them were sauske so i think there is something wrong there.

Ok lets just say it by that Evereyone loves the Emo Kid in the game [and that might be sasuke ...] he got strong attacks and all that crap everyone is playing with sasuke or minto or deidara or sasori or chyio [cyhio isnt spammy so it good to use her ] and not all pepole use this sasukes come on i am using Sasuke Chidori True Spear and well at least im doing combos like katon Rain [its a combo list in sasuke list a katon ball that dont use chakra ] anyway you have the timeing to kick ass and beat the crap out of them and alot of pepole like plays Sage Mode naruto or Taka Sasuke And if they want to play with them then i dont care what they do i can just tell you that when you know what they are going to use. use tactics dont think they will be up for that like when you doing UJ with sasuke [CTS] he can pawn the balane spam shurken and you pwan them to the air and wow they are got awaking ok nothing to be worried about i can say that sasori has a weakpoint
everyone got a weakpoint look by theier fighting style if they using spam then you do avoid tech if they combat hand to hand with you then fight hand to hand too its fun and hard if they spam grab then KNJ them and jutsus and they got pwand i can say that

Everyone

But Everyone

Got a Weak Point!

Even Susano....

[Assassin84]

I agree with you orel, everyone does have a weak point, my big concern is that although that is true, some peoples weak point is very small and limited compared to others. For example 1 character can have a weak point, while others have many. The problem is that it is a lot easier to cover your weak points if you have few compared to most characters which have many. That is my problem and what I call imbalanced, because with the support system in this game it allows you to cover your weak points but not all of them, now the problem comes when It can block all your weak points.

Sauske's weak point with kirin is that he is standing still and when using Kirin. you can dodge it sure, but then guess what, it follows you so you have to keep dodging, Unlike all other Ultimates for all other characters were if you miss your open to a counter, Sauske is not. Because if you stop for a second to try and charge up ur chakra for a dash or a counter jutsu/ulti you will get caught by Kirin and his recovery time after using it is really fast, so you can't wait till it stops and then attack because he will the be able to block it easily.

Now here you may say sure, it follows you, but while your dodging you can just get close and hit him or shuriken him. Now the next problem arises, supports. Out of all sauskes I have fought which is around 60 different ones, only about 3 have chosen different supports, all other choose Deidra and Kakazu. The problem here is that those supports will follow you and get you even if your dodging those support's jutsu do 360's all the time, Unless you pick a very specific character which can dodge those easily, but if it comes to that point we might as well play pokemon were you have to choose the right type(character) to battle against another specific type. Anyways You can block those easy sure, but now while your blocking he will use kirin and even if you block it will break your block down to red. And if he wasn't a noob and only used 1 support to make you block he will send out the second and make you block again, but this time kirin will break your block and continue and catch you.

And then they would just stay back and hide and shuriken dash around the map. If you ever get close they will just stay there spamming the block button, and the problem here is, his grab is faster then most, so he will grab you easily if you try first. Then he waits out for supports, to do the whole thing over again.

Sure there are sauskes who try to do combos and everything at first, but once you show them your not a noob and are gonna fall for easy things like that, they all revert back to the stale and stagnant strategy of the Kirin.

It would be balanced if the Kirin simply stayed in one spot instead of following you, to truly give it a weakness.

[Assassin84]

Well guys if we want to talk about ultimates, there aren't many different types ill put them in catagories for you

Types of Ultimates -

Trap - Such as konan, kisame, itachi, and choji. They beat rasengan type jutsus, dash, and dash type ultimates. there weakness is projectile type jutsus, and there recovery time is not fast. and has to be done close range, not from across the map.

Dash - Such as Naruto, Sauske(true spear), asuma, lars, sakura, etc. They beat rasengan type moves as well and are fast to get people such as trap and Send-type ultimates during there recovery time, It does however break your block a bit by a couple of hits. There weakness is trap jutsus and projectile jutsus, if far enough. plus they have to close range, they cant do it from across the map hiding behind supports.

Send - Such as pain and kabuto, garra, naruto wind style, etc who send things out with out putting there own bodies at harm. It follows the person but are easily dodged by one ninja side step. They get people during there Trap jutsus and can get people from far. There weakness is its slow and people can side step easily, and if they miss there jutsu keeps going leaving them open for a counter ultimate.

Any were - Such as Kakashi, Yamato, Tobi, and Sauske.
The main strength is that they work from any were on the map, you don't have to be at a certain range like other types. Weakness is its easily BLOCKED and side step and only works in one place, recovery time is fast, but since its easy to get away from its okay.

Any were is Sauskes type, if it followed the rules as the others in its type it would be balanced and fair, but I guess this is one jutsu that plays by its own rules, which follow like a Send-type and can be sent from anywere and has a fast recovery unlike a send type, so it has the positives of send-type and anywere-type with out the negatives of either, plus the fact that it breaks shield like a dash type but with out the need to be close range.

That is why I think it is really unbalanced, and I see everything else as balanced. Simply because I have looked at the strengths and weaknesses of all the types of jutsus but it seems sauskes has all the positives and none of the negatives. sure he stands still like a send-type, but he doesnt have to be at a certain range to use it and the recovery time is a lot faster.

So when you actually weigh the pros and cons COMPARED to the others, it is clearly imbalanced.

Also about Itachi we might un-ban him depending on what you guys want. so let us know

[JoySticK]

Nov 5, 2010 10:43:37 GMT -5 Assassin84 said:

I agree with you orel, everyone does have a weak point, my big concern is that although that is true, some peoples weak point is very small and limited compared to others. For example 1 character can have a weak point, while others have many. The problem is that it is a lot easier to cover your weak points if you have few compared to most characters which have many. That is my problem and what I call imbalanced, because with the support system in this game it allows you to cover your weak points but not all of them, now the problem comes when It can block all your weak points.

Sauske's weak point with kirin is that he is standing still and when using Kirin. you can dodge it sure, but then guess what, it follows you so you have to keep dodging, Unlike all other Ultimates for all other characters were if you miss your open to a counter, Sauske is not. Because if you stop for a second to try and charge up ur chakra for a dash or a counter jutsu/ulti you will get caught by Kirin and his recovery time after using it is really fast, so you can't wait till it stops and then attack because he will the be able to block it easily.

Now here you may say sure, it follows you, but while your dodging you can just get close and hit him or shuriken him. Now the next problem arises, supports. Out of all sauskes I have fought which is around 60 different ones, only about 3 have chosen different supports, all other choose Deidra and Kakazu. The problem here is that those supports will follow you and get you even if your dodging those support's jutsu do 360's all the time, Unless you pick a very specific character which can dodge those easily, but if it comes to that point we might as well play pokemon were you have to choose the right type(character) to battle against another specific type. Anyways You can block those easy sure, but now while your blocking he will use kirin and even if you block it will break your block down to red. And if he wasn't a noob and only used 1 support to make you block he will send out the second and make you block again, but this time kirin will break your block and continue and catch you.

And then they would just stay back and hide and shuriken dash around the map. If you ever get close they will just stay there spamming the block button, and the problem here is, his grab is faster then most, so he will grab you easily if you try first. Then he waits out for supports, to do the whole thing over again.

Sure there are sauskes who try to do combos and everything at first, but once you show them your not a noob and are gonna fall for easy things like that, they all revert back to the stale and stagnant strategy of the Kirin.

It would be balanced if the Kirin simply stayed in one spot instead of following you, to truly give it a weakness.

You Right about that really i agree with you about the kirin but if you want to know i fought alot of sasuke kirins so i tested the kirin type and this is what i found
1 Shot =Full Power 2=Middle Power 3= Middle-Littlle Power

and that i can say that even kirin isnt strong enough
but you dont you need to dodge the First Kirin Cus if not you got pwand if you Dodge The Secend shot he is will sommen Supports but in 3 Shot you got hit and by got hitted by the supports you got a Almost a Full-Epic Power Kirin Kirin is like a Magican like doing lighting bolt he cant move he need to spell his words but when the bolt come you attack him and he teleport aginst you
you need to know that he is going to do that and what i can say a Eye For a Eye you goot a chance to strike but you got 1 And only chance and he pwand hard and hardcore well and hes awaking is easy for sasukes [kirin] its hard to controll their Awaeking cus they counting about the kirin to finish thier off when you trying to pwan them they are faster and stronger and might more def but the speed is change its time for you to use your supports [if you not awakend ] that why you got your types [balance Def Atk] know your oponnents option if he choose Dedara and Kakzu he is a Close Range Bastard but the only thing you should be concernd about is deidera kakzu is easly to dodge with def or ninja move but with deidra its pretty hard to dodge some times it may be imposible but even a Char got a weakpoint in every way even with weapons
Clays are the most annoying thing but some times its useful cus like you using deidra as a attacker you got his ground combo and you got him for clays so he got the atvantge but you need to look for a opening

even if its a kick ass game
you need to use your head to win


Example
Sasuke Kirin VS Sasuke CTS [you ]
Supports:Kakzu and Deadira Supports2:Anyone you like

those sasukes are difrent in 3 things :Fighting style,UJ,and Costume

You start the battle and you got to check his power and see what you can do then you move to him but not so closly then he attacks you with shurikens in ninja move so you know already hes a Mid Range Fighter But he Can be something else too.
so this time you try something else attack him form midrange too so you can know what he can do
in the meantime he use hes Supports And Thats you most main Problom Kakzu Doing Jutsu and you got 2 Ways To do Dodge or Block. you block it but deidra is attacking now now you need to use KNJ and use ninja move and use 1 katon jutsu and there using ninja dash and they are up to you and you are like *****
you must think you block and he got back up a little
you use your supports [you choose now itachi as support and Kakashi] you use your secend support and wait for it to be hit or blocked if it hited nows your chance to strike you use ninja dash [not chakra dash]
you put him in the air you strike like 3 times on the punch button and then you use your first support [itachi] you he use katon jutsu you at least put him a 0.5 of the first bar and you got to slow down a bit and go to Def
He Coming you use ninja move and he use Both of supports and no way you can dodge this witout getting hit and then he about to use kirin and you block the supports attack and you use back chakra dash and then ninja move you will block at least 2 Shots of the kirin and you use block to stop the 3rd one and you use chakra dash to him and starts to fight for real
start to lower his chakra the most you can using kirin will got him half of the chakra bar and then you knj him when he combo you and then you got the good timeing for UJ you use it and hit you use Chidori Spear and pushed him away and hes awaking bar has come but you got a chance to block his awake bcuse of the CTS you got him a little bit out of it and then you all uses your supports some one will block and someone will dodge and you got the dam state now not undercontroll and you recover some chakra alot of it cus you need it when he is awakend and he is awakend finaly you cant use anything expect jutsus and shurkien and punchs

and thats your turn to take atvantge he use black chidori in the air dodge it ! or he will hit you btw if you got support bar half full use ground combos and strike back and you *****ing pwan him but if hes combos hits he will low you to your awake bar and you got to run form him to awake you use your supports and you have now 3Ways to win 1,Wait untill he is Finished hes awake and his kirin is useless max your support bar and get the boosts form battle items and then you won.

2. if you got awakeind then you got him in the balls as soon as hes in bad status and you must be careful for his spam but you got the atvantge in awakeing cus you are CTS Sasuke and you dont so much depends on your CTS and some times you do
so CTS are Better Awaekend then Kirin Sasukes and then you strike him to his end

3. as soon as hes bar is down just spam some katons and hes dead....


see you pwand him with CTS you got him in the Balls

just bcuse you saw his weakpoint you see

that a fight aginst sasuke kirin

[kitsune1199]

Woah. First off, I refuse to read anything orel said, simply because I don't want to strain myself to read through it. Use punctuation and proper grammar, and maybe I'd take you more seriously. You also sent me a message whining about how it's my fault Itachi was banned and telling me I should feel bad and whatnot. So I'm going to go ahead and disregard whatever you said and address the original post.

My suggestions, for what they're worth:

-Itachi should stay banned. No matter what, his awakening is too strong and invulnerable. As we've all discussed before, you really can't just ban awakenings in general because some characters can make legitimate use of them, and you can't just ban Itachi's because it's possible to trigger awakenings by accident if you look away from your chakra bar for a second, and it'd be hard to prove one way or the other (Itachi player is winning, accidentally triggers his awakening, loses automatically? or, Itachi player is losing, "accidentally" (purposely) triggers his awakening, the match restarts?).

-A definite limited character list, like you did in the first tournament with Deidara, Sasori, and Chiyo. That's a good way to eliminate a LOT of issues all at once, including the Sasuke Kirin issue. Characters included could be all Narutos, Sasukes, Deidara, Chiyo, Sasori, and Minato (obviously the list itself can be discussed and nitpicked, just a start/example).

-Keep it Team based. In the first tournament, some of my opponents argued with me about how Single matches are true proof of skill, and that people who "spam" supports (how can you even do that?) are weak, and should win without "relying" on them. The truth is, they add a layer of strategy to a game that's already somewhat lacking in options [don't get me wrong, there's a LOT of strategy involved in winning as opposed to button mashing, but there just aren't a lot of options (you pretty much have a few melee combos, shuriken, a jutsu, an ultimate, a simple grab, an awakening, and supports), and taking away an awakening or supports pretty much cuts those options in half].

That's all I've got for now, I'd like to hear other opinions though.

[Assassin84]

Alright for the sake of getting more people involved, I am changing the subject a bit.

What do you guys think about having supports or no supports for future single or team tournaments.

What do you guys think?

[bluhart]

Well I would like to respond to both subjects. For starters, I'll talk about "problem characters". Now some of these may be personal, but I really try to look at things objectively, but keep in mind while I list these that I am not condemning these characters or anyone who plays them. I am aware that skill can be present anywhere, I'm just going to discuss characters that I believe have certain advantages.

• Itachi - You guys got this right, he should be banned. I think it sucks for those who play with legitimate skill, but even with skill there is no way to equal the playing field when it comes to susanoo. Upon awakening Itachi gains a massive advantage. A skilled player only heightens that curve.
  
  
• Deidara - I think you made the right decision here, making it a restriction instead of a ban. From my experience distance and long-range "keepaway" gameplay rule in this game. For the most part, anyhow. Deidara thus has an auto-advantage in this field for his ability to perform quick and successive combos at a distance.
  
  
• Chiyo/Sasori - Similarly to Deidara, puppeteers have the advantage of being able to combo at a distance. I support continued restriction.
  
  
• Naruto - Specifically SM/Hokage Naruto. I was surprised he wasn't given some sort of restriction in the first tourny. Generally I don't have an issue with kyuubi, but that's because most narutos are scrubs. But for the sake of being able to talk about this with experience, I sought out a few skilled narutos. I have to say that a skilled naruto with kyuubi was nearly as bad as susanoo for me.
  
  The reason being that if I'm fighting a SM naruto who is as skilled as me, the advantage of his awakening can easily turn the tide of battle. It is frustrating to have worked hard to whittle down a naruto's health only to have the tide turned by an OP awakening. Now maybe I'm just a little slow in picking up how to deal with it, and that may be the case, but the obvious advantage is obvious. Make of that what you will.
  
  And yes, I know that the point of awakening is to give the player a "second chance", but I'm sorry, kyuubi totally crosses that line and heads on over into the realm of "haha, I win" and at the very least "now all your effort to get my health this low was pointless". And unless the player is a scrub, that will very likely be the case. It's just in a completely different realm from other awakenings.
  
  
• Minato - A deceptively dangerous character at times. This one I'm not entirely sure about, but I know that his awakening's ability to instaport and pop off a rasengan with great speed is something that I have encountered many times and becomes a sort of "easy road" for those who weren't able to best me otherwise. Again, it might be a personal problem. I'd like to hear what others have to say.
  
  
• Kirin Sasuke - Assassin outlined this pretty well. Granted, once you start to get the hang of this strategy it becomes a lot easier to negotiate, but that doesn't change the fact that Sasuke's kirin increases the curve. I think he should be restricted.
  
  
• Guy - This is another one that I think might be a personal problem, but dammit I hate fighting Guy. It's his awakening. He instaports and honestly it's ridiculously difficult to get away from him. This is coming from someone who practically specializes in substitution and staying away from the opponent. But again it might be a personal deficiency, but I know that his instaporting is like twice as fast as Minato's and a skilled Guy can quickly drain my chakra from having to substitute, giving me little breathing room and forcing me to take a beating. Guy's awakening might look normal but it can be a total "win mode".

Hope it doesn't seem like I'm just complaining, I'm really trying to present valid issues that I see. I'm not one to complain about "spam". I believe that there are ways to deal with everything, it's just that when that way is difficult enough to grant a major advantage to the opponent... it just seems like a problem to me. For most of these characters, if the player is skilled, I immediately feel disadvantaged while playing. Everone knows the feeling because it's entirely different from feeling just plain ol' outplayed.

So with all of that said, I believe all of the characters in this list should receive restrictions just like the Deidara/puppeteer restriction for tourny #1. This is just what I think from my personal experience.

Nov 5, 2010 19:16:22 GMT -5 Assassin84 said:

What do you guys think about having supports or no supports for future single or team tournaments.

I think that it would be a shame for no tournament to have supports, as they are an extra layer of the gameplay and present a highly strategic element. From how the supports affect your drive/speed/TA stats, to how they can supplement and/or compliment your gameplay - supports are a lot of fun to work with and it shows skill when a person really knows how to use them.

Ideally, I think there would be four kinds of tournaments - team tournament (single play), team tournament (team play), single tournament (single play), single tournament (team play). But as it is I like how you've guys done the whole team tournament = team play, single tournament = single play. But if it came down between the two, I say keep supports.

[Assassin84]

Yeah those are all good suggestions, and we will wait to hear more from you guys before we decide to limit or ban/unban characters.

Now however what type of tournament do you guys want, in the team division. Currently it is whichever team wins the most rounds, but would guys rather have it be most matchs won, wins?

Or how about a whole other type of tournament where it is winner stays, were 1 team chooses a player to play and he faces 1 opponent from the other team, but if he win he stays to fight the other opponent, and if he wins again he fights the last one, so it is possible for him to win a match by himself.

[kitsune1199]

Damn, bluhart. You hit every point EXACTLY how I see it; from Minato and Guy and how you're unsure whether they're a legitimate problem or just a personal issue, to Itachi and Naruto and how they're definitely past the line, to Supports adding a layer of strategy. Excellently stated.

Assassin, to answer your question, I like the team tournament the way it is now. As (arguably of course) the best on my team, after I won my 3 rounds, I was worried about my teammates and their matches. I told them that between them, they had to win 2 (that would bring us to 5 wins, and our opponents to 4, which is the minimum for victory), which made me sweat a bit while I waited to hear the results. It makes it so you have to rely on your team heavily, but at the same time allows one member's matches to count just as much. It's an interesting system, and I personally wouldn't change it. Of course, that's based almost entirely on opinion. Wish more people would post here and talk about what they want.

[Assassin84]

Well kitsune about the tournament format, its true you depend on your team a lot more the way we have it. But for the next tournament we decided to go with the winner stays format, to test it out, because we got a couple request to do i that way. So we will see how it all works out.

About prizes we are thinking of having prizes the tournament after next, because this one was a bit messy and some teams and players didnt take initiative and play. So we are fixing rules and formats and hopefully gonna have our website up soon. And see if it the tournament runs a lot smoother, if it does then we will definitely have prizes

[THATCRZYFKR]

Ok so first off, I completely agree that those characters definitely have advantages over many of the other characters, and they should have some sort of limitation. Fighting Guy is actually worse to me, then having to fight Itachi in Susano'o form (I swear, I hate that Dynamic Entry...).

But back to the whole tournament, I agree with kitsune. I like the way the last one was organized, and that supports should still be included. And that the tournament layout for winning and advancing, is ok the way it is. Although, personally, I wouldn't mind trying out the last suggestion that Assassin made, just to see how it works.

[Assassin84]

About characters, how it stands right now:

Naruto won't be limited, nor minato nor guy. I can tell you guys about guy, yeah his dynamic entry is annoying because for some reason i can't counter it like i do other characters, but hes not in the realm of taking half your life in 1 hit, or in 5 seconds so that's our reasoning for not banning them.

As for kyubi, just know that when people go into awakening, they try not to waste time and try to attack u every second they have in that form, so take advantage of that.

Now itachi, he might be unbanned, but that depends on what the majority of you want so let me know.

The limit list still applies to other characters

Now sauske Kirin and Sasori, I have been thinking and what makes these characters have the most edge is not their combos nor the fact that they can attack from far, nor even the ultimate it self. But what really makes them unfair is when ur knocked up into the air, they can catch you in their ultimate while your character is in a dummy state, meaning you cant substitute or jump away.

Unlike others as in team jutsu or kabuto or asuma which can catch u as ur falling, you have the time to jump away, or block because when they catch u, u are already close to the ground and have some control over ur character.

So what I have been thinking is what if we dont allow sauske kirin or sasori to put their supports in attack mode> Pretty much disabling the ability to knock u back and having their supports knock u in the air for a guaranteed ultimate.

Let me know what you guys think.

[kitsune1199]

Woah woah. I agree with Guy and maybe even Naruto, but you can't unban Itachi. He's inarguably on a completely different level from everyone else; using him is just plain unfair.

As for Sasuke and Sasori not being able to use attack type supports, I suppose that could work, but I still suggest a limited list including (at least) Sasori, Deidara, and Chiyo.

[lordspectrex]

Limiting Deidara, a mid tier character and unlimiting Minato and SM Naruto is silly. Also, lol at banning Kirin and Sasori from having attack supports.

1) Almost every character can do their ougi after an attack support. Plus, the argument that 'it is easier' is false, since others like Lee require no timing either. Plus 'guaranteed'? Since when? You could always substitute it.

2) Attack supports is Sasori's only real way to pull of an ougi reliably. He can't even do it after knjing or with hidan at close range.